METAL GEAR SOLID.NET

I've been replaying MGS3 - And noticed some interesting themes. We all know that Kojima is well known for repetition and theme, which made me suspect that there are deeper conections within Ocelot's character. I suppose the most logical person to be Ocelot's father is The Sorrow, as in age they look similar, his relationship with The Boss and the possible theory as to his blood lineage with the Sorrow being the reason Ocelot's Arm controls him in MGS2. However, nano-machines are credited for that in MGS4

My speculation, although probably innacurate and impossible, is that the true father of Ocelot is Big Boss.

Points of evidence:

- Naked Snake confesses to EVA that he and The Boss were 'beyond lovers'

- According to the Boss' dialogue, her over-exposure to radiation occeured over a year after she and Jack met.

- The Boss and Paramedic's dialogue about her son claim that he was born on a battlefield, which we can assume is WWII, however, The Boss may have participated in the Korean war, which they could have meant- again, before her erradiation.

- Big Boss' birthday is reported as being 1930, as he is supposedly 42 (the same age as Solid Snake when he meets Big Boss in MGS4) When LET are born in '72- Making him 20 when he met The Boss (making her 30)

*** However, it is entirely possible that Big Boss was older than that, AND that he may have met and had a relationship with the boss before this time- it is simply documented that this was the year they invented CQC. It would be required that Big Boss and The Boss mated prior to 1946 for Ocelot to be 18 at the time of The Virtuous Mission.***

- Big Boss has a very paternal nature toward Ocelot and is unable to kill him. He offers advice and holds a fundamental respect for him, which Ocelot returns.

- Big Boss later recruits Ocelot into FoxHound and attempts to protect him when they become the Patriots (Probably part of the plot to Metal Gear 3)

- Big Boss can grow a moustache (as seen particularly in Old Snake) whereas it seems as though The Sorrow can not. However, both the Sorrow and Big Boss have receeding hairlines, seen in Ocelot.

- Similar in the way that Big Boss follows in the footsteps and preforms the will of the Boss, Ocelot does the same for him.

- Liquid Ocelot refers to Big Boss repededly as "Father" which he states as Liquid as Big Boss is his clone sample, however, Kojima may have intended this as a twisted irony if Big Boss were Ocelots biological father. - Also, Liquid had never met Big Boss prior to his 'death' at Zanzibar Land, and would be unaware that he smoked Cigars ("Father's favorite... -MGS4) , however, this could simply be because he assimilated Ocelots knowledge. Other wise, it would be an Ocelot spoken reference to his father, not Liquid's.

- Ocelots ability to absorb Liquid's persona may have come from the fact that they shared similar genetic code.

- Ocelot was vaccinated from FoxDie by Solidus prior to MGS1, however, since he was working for the Patriots who created FoxDie, he would have been able to remove his code from the virus- HOWEVER, if he was the son of Big Boss, his code may have still been similar to Liquid's, meaning he would have to be vaccinated anyway.

- Big Boss' rejection of LET may have been due to his having an actual son.

- Kojima's use of recurring themes applies doubly so in the event that Big Boss is Ocelot's father, in the Liquid Ocelot immates him in two respects during MGS4

- Ocelots respect and disgust for LET may be a conflict sense of next-of-kin in combination with his respect for Big Boss

- The Sorrow needed glasses, but Ocelot doesn't.

So those are the main points I can think of supporting Big Boss being the father of Ocelot- however the dates are flawed, IF it can be assumed that Big Boss had never met The Boss priot to 1950, and he was born in 1930- neither of which can be officialy proven, however.

--TAI

What a thought, and heavily backed up too. You've just thrown a spanner in the works of MGS, but that seems to happen every time a new game comes out anyway. Hope this mystery is cleared up in future releases. Naked Snake would have been very young when Ocelot had been born, if he is the father though.

It's an interesting enough theory, but The Sorrow is definitely Ocelot's father. I'm sure Liquid and I will get round to playing MGS3 together once we've finished MGS2 again, so we'll be able to confirm this fact very soon. There is very little doubt about this, though.

One thing I would like to pull you up on, though, Tai, is your use of the verb 'to mate' when referring to humans reproducing: don't use it. It's horribly beastial and not at all in line with the idea of 'love-making'.

BBMSteve at 03:32PM on Jan 29, 2009

It's an interesting enough theory, but The Sorrow is definitely Ocelot's father. I'm sure Liquid and I will get round to playing MGS3 together once we've finished MGS2 again, so we'll be able to confirm this fact very soon. There is very little doubt about this, though.

One thing I would like to pull you up on, though, Tai, is your use of the verb 'to mate' when referring to humans reproducing: don't use it. It's horribly beastial and not at all in line with the idea of 'love-making'.

I won't go so far as to enter the love-dubby realm of love-making, but it hindsight I will settle for 'Procreate' as my verb, Toasty.

You mean there's no conspiracy? Aw, damn it. I was hoping for some plot-twist that meant that Johnny Sasaki is in fact related to everybody. Or something about Eva and Adamska being tempted by a Snake. I got a new copy of Snake Eater recently and I was playing a bit last night, but yes we do need to finish MGS2. When we play MGS3 again, we'll have to do it within days or our food will rot.

'Procreate' is a little less bestial than 'mate', I have to give you that. While there's nothing wrong with it technically, there's just something about 'mate' that makes me shudder when applied to humans.

And yes, Liquid, we will have to make sure we play regularly, like you say. Either that or we will have to fiddle our PS2's clocks. Just as long as we don't miss out on fighting Ji Endo.

Another piece of evidence that Big Boss is Ocelot's Father;

During the fight with The Boss, Naked Snake collects three white snakes, Solid, Liquid and Solidus, each representing his clone sons. Once he kills The Boss, a fourth snake appears from her scar and slithers away... representing Ocelot?

This may be slightly irrelevant but do we know into whose uterus Snake and Liquid's zygotes were implanted. It's just something I don't know, and I wondered if we were told in MGS4 or something. All the characters seem to be very closely linked, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's someone we've already met.

"Liquid Snake" at 02:05PM on Feb 10, 2009

This may be slightly irrelevant but do we know into whose uterus Snake and Liquid's zygotes were implanted. It's just something I don't know, and I wondered if we were told in MGS4 or something. All the characters seem to be very closely linked, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's someone we've already met.

Yes, spoilers.

Liquid and Solid's DNA were injected into the egg cell of a Japanese woman, and after the initial insemination, the zygotes were implated into Eva's uterus, which is why she uses the code name Big Mama in MGS4.

What he said.

Have you yet to finish Guns O' da Patriots yet, Liquid?

Liquid doesn't currently have a PS3, so playing MGS4 isn't possible.

It does suck, not having a PS3, but I'm not one to reject any spoilers that come my way. In an attempt to be more up on MGS4 I bought the strategy guide the other day. One word - Sigint!

So, you killed Signit? You bastard!

Hence the whole "The DARPA Chief knew my identity but he's been disposed of" to Solidus. And here they are, all the games 1-4 linking together.